Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself, chef Francis?

Chef Francis Rattantana: So my name is Francis Rattantana and I’m the Chef de Cuisine at Tong Brooklyn. I have been working in the restaurant business for 10 to 11 years, mostly in Asian restaurants ranging from Japanese, Thai, Chinese and Korean. I do have 2 years in Italian cooking and 1 year in French. In terms of cooking style, I try to create traditional flavors with modern techniques and equipment. 

FK: And how does that apply to what you are doing at Tong Brooklyn?

FR: Well, it’s a little hard to describe but sometimes there are more efficient ways to make a certain dish. With dishes that require a long brazing time, for example, you can add a crockpot to the equation to shorten it. 

Nonetheless, we try to keep it as authentic as possible by getting authentic, traditional ingredients in all of our dishes. We also pay close attention to the flavor and try to keep it as Thai as possible. 

FK: Can you take us through the menu for more details?

FR: Sure! So our restaurant’s concept is a small tapas style with small plating coupled with beer and wine, with our Kub Klaem section. We also have familiar dishes that people are used to ordering at Thai restaurants like Pad See Ew or Tom Yum Sea Food Soup, so our customers can be comfortable with the stuff they know and adventurous with the stuff they don’t yet know about Thai cuisine, both in the same meal. 

What I think really separates us from other Thai restaurants is how hard we try to keep it interesting with menu items that you just can’t find anywhere else — which are still authentic Thai dishes in their own way!

FK: That’s really cool! Why did you choose the focus on small plates and alcohol pairing though?

FR: This is for you to come in and try as many new dishes as you can before getting full! It’s also for people to be more comfortable ordering an unfamiliar dish, knowing that they won’t have to waste a big portion if they don’t end up liking it. 

FK: Do you think this small-tapas concept along with your cooking style — incorporating new techniques with traditional flavors — might affect what you guys are trying to do in terms of authenticity?

FR: That’s a really good question! We have thought about this as we set up and experiment with our recipes, and I don’t think they are able to jeopardize our authenticity. The plating might be modern but the ingredients are still there, the flavors are still there, and our intention to keep the Thai traditions are definitely always there!

FK: Glad to hear that! Now that this authentic presence is settled, will you guys focus more on making the drinks more Thai as well, or will you try to add in more modernity to the concept?

FR: We actually are gonna focus on both at the same time. Authentic food will come first for sure, and a modern touch will make the presentation more pleasing to our customers and fitting to our concept. We are also trying to add Asian influence into our drinks menu for sure. 

FK: Can you let us in on the new menu?

FR: I can with the food! We are gonna have a new seafood stir-fried called Pad Cha Talay with a new Corn Salad. We are also adding the Massaman Brisket that got us Best Original Dish at Brisket King to the menu temporarily. It might stay permanently if the customers love it. We didn’t actually smoke this one, but we brined it with fish sauce, water and sugar for 18 to 24 hours, before confitting it for 4 to 5 hours using lemongrass, bay leaves and some other Southeast Asian herbs. 

(This was Francis’s answer at the time of the interview. All three dishes are still on the menu for you to enjoy right now!)

FK: I love to see the Brisket King influence! Have you been to events like ours before?

FR: Brisket King 2022 was actually our first restaurant event! I have been to other events in my chef career, but this was also my first BBQ event. 

FK: And how was your experience?

FR: I liked it! I got to meet a lot of other chefs, and some of them were from all over the country. I wanted to come to Rib King too but it was a little too far away. And we didn’t have enough staff on a Saturday. But I’m glad that I get to show people that we can BBQ brisket and add Thai flavors onto it as well! Can’t wait to come back next year!

There are still a few more months till both Brisket King and Rib King 2023, but our holiday-exclusive for Brisket King as well as for Pig Island are out! You can check them out right here and here! For the meantime, visit Tong Brooklyn in Bushwick for a New Year’s Eve celebration on Saturday and show your support on their social media!

Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself and your chef career!

Chef Robert Austin Cho: I’m Robert Austin Cho. I’m the chef, pitmaster and owner of Kimchi Smoke. Currently I have two locations in Westwood and Ridgewood, New Jersey, but it all started out as a pop up in 2013. I don’t have a formal chef training, but some time in the mid 2000s, I was watching TV and seeing BBQ, smoked meat, all that, blew my mind! I instantly gravitated toward it. 

Living in an apartment at that time, I bought a small grill, went to the park and just started smoking some ribs. And I thought I got pretty good at it! It was just a hobby at the time — I didn’t try to sell it, just do it more and more. I would go out to eat at BBQ restaurants, read about places. And after a while, I thought “I can make food like these people,” why not give it a shot?

FK: And was there anyone aiding your aim while you were giving it a shot with Kimchi Smoke?

RAC: I didn’t have an official mentor figure, but Aaron Franklin was on TV at the time becoming a household name. He’s a guy that I studied a lot — watched all his videos, anything about him I would read and see what he was doing — because I wanted to perfect my brisket like he did. 

I also read a cooking book, “Smoke & Pickles” by chef Edward Lee. His story resonated with me since he’s Korean-American, raised in New York then decided to move down South and became influenced by Southern cuisine. His words definitely gave me a lot of inspiration and guidance throughout my career. 

Over the years, I watched a lot of Food Network and saw a lot of great people, but the first one I saw was Bobby Flay, and then I got to meet him and then competed with him on his show, which was pretty cool. Chef Carl Ruiz came into my restaurant once and we became friends. We spoke at Pig Island 2019 right before he passed. I looked up to him as a chef and a Jersey guy. The way he ran social media definitely influenced me to be more of myself. He gave me great advice and sadly, we lost him way too soon.

FK: Apart from these influential people, were there any other inspirations, like your family or close friends?

RAC: One thing that I’m very proud of is because I’m Korean-American, I believe Koreans in particular have a very good palate. That might be coming from our parents because they’re very picky. If something’s slightly too salty or spicy, or too sweet, that would really bother me. That was the foundation of my flavor profile. So I incorporated that type of standard into my food and in a sense, it’s Korean BBQ or Korean food because of how well-balanced it is. 

People also ask me if the recipes are family recipes. My parents did not teach me how to cook but when I look back, since they were always working and I’m home by myself a lot, I just ended up cooking things for myself as a mode of survival. And that’s also how Kimchi Smoke came to be because there was always kimchi in the house and I would just slab them over frozen pizzas or leftovers — that’s the way I ate things.

And that’s the weird thing, because I was always ashamed to be Korean growing up, but I just love Korean food!

FK: How did those mixed feelings play a part in your upbringing?

RAC: So I was born in South Korea, came to the States when I was 4 years old — I’ve been here pretty much all my life. Growing up here at a time when there weren’t so many Asian-Americans going to school, maybe five kids in the whole school. I always felt like I was one of two Asian kids in my class, or even the whole grade, so I just wanted to fit in. 

I was shying away from my ethnic background, embarrassed to be Korean at times. When we go to the beach, my parents would bring kimchi and smelly food while I just want to eat hamburgers and hot dogs. When I started doing Kimchi Smoke, it was healing. It wasn’t my goal to do it as healing but as I was doing Kimchi Smoke and promoting Korean food, meeting all different people, it was great! 

It’s also because growing up, I was considered too American by some Koreans, and not American enough for Americans. I felt accepted by neither but as people accepted my food as BBQ, I felt acceptance of me as an American. Which is why I’m trying to make my BBQ just BBQ — I don’t even have to say this is Texas Korean BBQ or any other label there is. 

FK: And has the unique naming of your dishes, like Chonut, Cholent or Chominican rice, helped you a lot with this?

RAC: Yes, for sure! It’s breaking down barriers in people’s minds about what type of food they are having and what it’s supposed to taste like. But it’s also two-fold. My name just somehow magically goes with a lot of things, and when I’m doing a hashtag on social media, if I put “Cho” in front of something, no one else is gonna have that. This is for marketing as anyone can easily search for my dishes on social media.

FK: Has your Korean heritage ever been an obstacle on your way to become a pitmaster?

RAC: When I did my first BBQ competition in 2013, when I showed up with my banner that said “Kimchi Smoke,” I could feel the racial overtone. It feels like I’m on a middle-school basketball court again, being picked last because “he’s Chinese, he can’t play basketball.” It felt like I was going against the grain, definitely. 

But now it’s 2022, I know the sport of BBQ has changed a lot, there are a lot of different chains and different styles of BBQ-ing. It is definitely changing, but when I first started out I did feel like an outsider at times. And when I didn’t get invitations to festivals or competitions, I do wonder, because there usually aren’t a lot of people of different ethnicities at those as well. 

And I’m from Jersey, so it’s like a double-disrespect. So I’m always working hard and bringing my A-game to events like Rib King or Brisket King, because I’m representing Korean flavors, I’m representing Jersey. In 2019 when I won People’s Choice in Brisket King, it was for Jersey, because I know it doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. And I feel really good this year too because the SmoKING of Meats won and he’s from Jersey too!

FK: And how did you feel being a part of those past Food Karma events?

RAC: I guess, prior to 2019, there were three years that I’ve done it and a part of me felt that I had no chance of winning, because I was nobody. But I always thought, I love what I do and my meat is just as good as anyone’s there. And I’ve gone around tasting other’s briskets and ribs — which tasted really good — and I know I’m in the big league now. But I’m always going in thinking I’m the underdog, I have to work hard and bring my A-game, and go represent.

The crowds at these events are also great, and that’s the reason I keep coming back. It’s definitely exciting just to be there slicing the meat and watching people taste it, especially with their reactions afterward. The people are the most important to me, and that is why I’m so proud of my People’s Choice award, because ultimately it’s the people that are coming to the restaurant and supporting my food. 

FK: Are you coming back next year?

RAC: I think about that a lot actually. In the past, I always thought I’m not gonna do it again, but then I always ended up going. So we’ll see!

If you can’t wait till next year to see chef Robert, support him through social media platforms or visit him at 301 Center Ave., Westwood, New Jersey. His personal accounts are pretty fun to follow too if you want to see his journey to become a hipper food influencer.

Food Karma: How has your family influenced your culinary path?

Chef Jesse Jones: My inspiration came from my grandmother in the beginning because I stayed with her when I was four years old. And being four years old, I was in love with BBQ. Every time I go down south with my sister, we would hit the BBQ joint where two ladies with the old country hats would bring us the best chopped BBQ and big pieces of white bread. And that has always been stuck in my head. I also touched on my aunts and my family a bit in the book, and even as I got older now they still inspire me so much. We had an aunt who was the pork queen, and what she did with pork was unbelievable, you know. And I made a great potato salad because of them.

FK: Did you also learn your storytelling skills from your aunts?

JJ: Yep! My aunt Bull was a master storyteller, she would gather people in a circle and just talk for days. When I was young, I went over my mouth. I thought that if I stood up and talked to someone, I would like, die. But the differences between my stories and hers are that mine came from redemption, pain, suicide, losing everything, yet my wife’s still with me and my family stays together. And people feel it, you know, when they come and when they taste the food, they really feel it. And so my book was for more people to know these stories and then see it through my dishes.  

FK: Can people still get the book now?

JJ: Yeah, of course! “Pow! My Life in 40 Feasts” – 240 pages of recipes that are dear to my heart. They all mean so much to me because they are from my family, from chefs that I worked for, and it just tells my story about dreaming big and never giving up, even when I lost my house, my restaurant and really fell to the bottom. It’s available on Amazon, or on my website. I have books available if people want autographed copies also.

FK: That sounds amazing! And are you celebrating the book turning five this year?

JJ: Yeah I’m doing an event on July 31, and I’m teaming up with the Montclair Brewery using their Juneteenth special craft beer with hibiscus red hop. That’s gonna go with my fried chicken and sweet potato waffle. For $30 you get a signed copy, a beer and the sweet potato waffle and fried chicken.

FK: Sounds like an awesome deal!

JJ: Yeah! And if you love beer it’s gonna be a great microbrew fest for you. For this book, I just want young chefs to feel inspired and continue to work hard. My whole book is about being of color in this business, but with a positive note and solidarity in mind.

FK: Is it also an obstacle in the BBQ world being of color?

JJ: I think most Black chefs have had their ups and downs and adversities that they had to deal with in the industry. Growing up I didn’t want to be Black, ‘cause I always thought about why we had to go through so much, why we had to deal with all these problems. But when I get a little older, I’m happy to be Black and come back to support the community and maybe make one fewer kid feel that way. So I don’t really think about it when people say mean things and just go on with my own stuff. I think of them with a been-there-done-that mindset, because people were calling me all sorts of names when I was still in the kitchen.

FK: And how has your culinary training influenced your BBQing?

JJ: Over the years as a chef, I dibble and dabble in BBQ-ing quite a bit. Most chefs can smoke and we had to when we were in culinary school, but the pitmasters didn’t go to school but traveled around the country and became much more creative. But being a chef helped me a lot with developing and fixing my recipes. The techniques also come in handy when I need to marinade or brine.

But the most important part of my time in the kitchen for BBQ-ing was when I was a cleanup guy and the chefs wouldn’t let me touch their meat. That’s when I know I gotta teach myself, keep learning on my own and just keep on improving. It was the same with the pitmasters down South, I had all these questions for them but they would never tell me. But I’m gonna keep learning and figure things out myself, adding more of my inventions, just like my grandmother always taught me.

FK: So BBQ-ing is also an outlet for your creativity?

JJ: Yeah for sure! Like I did strudel last Pig Island and I got the technique award because I was doing my own French puff pastry, all fresh and homemade. I worked with master chefs and pastry chefs as apprentices, and now I’m here to show you all that I’ve learned.

FK: Are you excited to bring all these stories to Pig Island this September?

JJ: Yes, they always want to hear the stories, and they come up early and talk to me while I get set up. They’ll be like “Yo chef Jesse!” and I’ll be like “Heyyy!” So I’ll definitely be bringing the stories along to make their money worth, and hopefully touch some more people with my stories.

While Pig Island is a month away on September 10, you can catch up with chef Jesse by reading through his book “Pow! My Life in 40 Feasts,” which is celebrating its fifth year of publishing, or by following him on various social media platforms and reading our previous interview with the chef on his background and writing. 

You can find Zabb Pu Tawn at 1584 First Avenue in New York City. They were both at our Brisket King and Rib King event. 

Food Karma: Can you tell us more about your culinary background?

Chef Tony: I learned cooking from my parents. I started from cooking for friends and family, and his friends and family members loved my cooking. So I decided to open a restaurant in Thailand and we got very good responses from the customers. Later on, I decided to do something bigger, a catering service right here in Thailand. 

FK: When did you come to New York City?

CT: I had a chance to come here from Thailand ten years ago. And so I went and worked for multiple Thai restaurants to get more experience. And it was in 2015, when I was working for Zabb Elee in Queens that I won my Michelin star. Then I partnered up with Chanchai “Charles” Khampinchai right here to open up Zabb Pu Tawn in 2016. I love cooking and I prefer to focus more on the cooking to serve customers the most authentic Ishan and Northern Thai food. 

Chanchai “Charles” Khampinchai: Anything that he serves his family, he serves his diners, with heart.

Tachchapak Rittaprom (Chef Tony’s Daughter): But so much less spicy!

FK: Can you tell us more about Northern Thai food?

CT: A famous dish from Northern regions is larb, which is ground pork with marinade with larb powder, which we imported from Thailand, along with other spices like chilies and peppers, and a special Thai spice called “macquet” to make it smell really good. And then there’s also the Hung Lay ribs which won the Most Innovative award at Rib King, which use ginger, tamarind juice and cumin powder all mixed together. I marinade Hung Lay paste with pork ribs overnight and slow-cook the next day for a few hours to make the ribs tender.

FK: What about Isan food?

CT: For Isan, there’s Laab Gai, which is a minced chicken salad, with chili powder, roasted rice powder, lime juice, fish sauce, cilantro and scallion, and mint leaves as well. If you like it spicier, we can add more chili powder. And then there is the Tom Zabb spare rib soup, with well-done pork ribs, chili, fish sauce, roasted rice powder, lime juice and garnished with cilantro and scallion also. 

I also want to talk about Pad Thai, which is perhaps the most popular Thai food out there. I made the sauce for it from fish sauce, palm sugar and tamarind juice all mixed well together. This is authentic Thai, because other Thai restaurants would add vinegar, which is far too sour. 

FK: Is cooking with rib and brisket a big part of Thai cooking?

CT: Yes! We grill a lot of ribs for Brisket King and Rib King, which is a big part of Thai cuisine. I have been BBQ-ing since I was in Thailand so I’m used to dealing with ingredients like these.

FK: Are there specific techniques and differences to BBQ-ing the Thai way?

CT: The most important thing to me when grilling is the marinade. I usually marinade the beef overnight to make it more tender, and serve it with my special tamarind-based sauce to customers. In terms of techniques, I use high flame to make the outside more crispy while keeping the inside tender, and I flip the meat often to make sure it’s not burned.

FK: Have you been to other events like Rib King and Brisket King?

CT: These were our firsts.

FK: And how did you feel being a part of them?

CT: I was really happy when I got the invitation. I had so much fun there and I loved meeting all the customers in person, and they loved my cooking also!

CK: There was a long line of people waiting for his ribs!

FK: At Brisket King, you had a dish with an interesting backstory called “Crying Tiger Ribs.” Can you tell us more about the story and if you have any other similar backstory for your dishes?

CT: So a hunter went into the woods, and he saw a cow with a tiger bite. He then took the beef from the cow and he grilled it on an open flame, with delicious fat dripping down onto the fire. That is the tears that we were talking about. But the tiger was also crying because he couldn’t eat the yummy beef that the hunter was having right in front of his eyes.

FK: Such an awesome origin story! And how was winning the Most Innovative award at Rib King?

CT: I’m definitely very happy and proud of what I’ve done. I’m also very happy with customers’ response to my cooking-with-heart approach.

FK: In the future, do you plan to expand the menu and dive deeper into BBQ-ing?

CT: We have already been adding to our menu here at Zabb Pu Tawn, and we will be sure to accept any invites to similar events in the near future.

FK: Do you have anything else to share with our readers?

CT: That’s all for now, but I will be off to make Crying Tiger ribs for you right now!

As you might expect, I had a really good meal at Zabb Pu Tawn, with Crying Tiger ribs, chicken feet spicy soup and house-made sticky rice, all cooked by Chef Tony. If you want the delicious food without having to write a whole article, support Zabb Pu Tawn here and follow their actions on social media platforms.