2023 Pig Island Participants

• Jose Perez, Bears Smokehouse, Connecticut (Winner of Rib King NYC 2023)
• Bret Lunsford, Blue Smoke, New York, NY
• Robert Austin Cho, Kimchi Smoke, Ridgewood, NJ
• Anthony Scerri, Smoke Sweats, Brooklyn, NY (Rib King NYC 2023 Runner Up)
• Tank Jackson, Holy City Hogs, Charleston SC
• Pork Mafia Street Crew featuring Phil Wingo, Mario DiBiase, and Jonathan Kushnir
• Cenobio Canalizo, Morgan’s Brooklyn Barbecue, Brooklyn, NY
• Fabio Benedetti, aka Chef Benedetti, Paellas Pepe, Brazil
• Jase Franklyn, Jase’s BBQ, Queens, NY
• Joe Musngi, SmoKING of Meats, New Jersey
• Tony Olive, Backdraft BBQ and Operation BBQ Relief, Connecticut
• Darlene Lawrence, Sands Jerk Hut, Brooklyn, NY
• Smoked Spice BBQ, New York
• Craft House BBQ, Staten Island, NY
• Chef Jesse Jones, Retiring from competitions, New Jersey
• Empire BBQ, Staten Island, NY
• Rodrigo Duarte, New Jersey’s King of Ham
• Samuel Alleyne, Fire + Smoke BBQ and Big Bob Gibson competition team
• Alexandra Donnadio, Chef and Influencer, CookingwithZandge_s
• Chef Oak, Kam Rai Thai, Queens, NY
• Kyle Smith, Smith Poultry, New Jersey
• Mike Lapi, SUNY Cobleskill, New York
• Chef Nick, Rhythm and Ribz Smokehouse, New Jersey
• Aris Tuazon, Gugu Room, New York
• Jimmy’s No. 43 All-Star Team with vegetable grilling station and Cabot grilled cheese

Food Karma: Tell me about yourself: what drew you to working with grains?

Avery Robinson: When I was an undergrad, I studied food systems, sustainable food systems, and sustainable urban planning. And so that was the start of me really getting into food and thinking about it more systemically. I continued that into grad school work where I studied culinary history, specifically Jewish and American culinary history. And so since since my time in academia, I’ve often have this framing and thinking about food, both from a historical lens, but also in tangible terms: in where is my food coming from, what is its impact on the environment, what is the impact on the people who are producing it and consuming it, and where does waste go? And so, since the early aughts and teens, that’s really what I’ve been thinking about and how I approach the world.

FK: What was your journey to the Rye Revival?

AR: In 2019, I met Rita Hinden, who is the formal thought founder of Rye Revival, and she has been bringing people together over ride for the past decade or so. I met her at a Jewish Sustainable food conference, and she was there talking about rye and its cultural legacy within European Jewish immigrants, so Ashkenazi Jews. That really spoke to me because of my culinary history background. But then as she was telling me more about rye, I was like, oh! Obviously rye is such an amazing grain! And then a year later, we were in the pandemic and, you know, people were feeling rather entrepreneurial. So with Rita and a few farmers and other grain activists like June Russell, we formalized this into Rye Revival.

It was a long time coming and it may have happened without the pandemic, but this was a great opportunity to get people together, especially around Zoom and else and otherwise. These conversations that have been going on for a while really needed to have a genesis into something real. And also, for us who were stuck and feeling like we could we couldn’t be doing anything because of the pandemic to get out of that space us into something that we thought could really make a difference on climate change. 

FK: Can you tell us about what Rye Revival is?

AR: Rye Revival is promoting the ecological production, rye as a climate change mitigation strategy. And so however we can get the word out about that, we do that.

I recently came from a Grain School event that was being hosted by Cornell Cooperative Extension Extension with June Russell and Glynwood and a few other partners. And, you know, people were they were very excited about Rye. There’s a lot of interesting discussions with maltsters and thinking about end-market users of breweries and bakeries and distilleries. Additionally, there were discussions about getting farmers excited about growing this grain and thinking of there being a market for it; A market that has historically been neglected for the past 50 odd years because rye is no longer traded as a commodity. It was dropped by the Chicago Board of Trade in the 1970s. And so with that, you know, there’s it’s very rare for farmers to get insurance for their rye crop. There’s no subsidies for rye like there are others. And so Rye Revival was trying to level the playing field a little bit, and also help farmers recognize the agricultural benefits that rye offers to their farms. Thinking of rye not just as a profit-driven crop, but something that can actually regenerate their soils.

Rye Revival is working to educate farmers and support the growth of increased growth of rye and new growth of an American farms and farms throughout the world. Although right now we’re focusing principally on America because that’s where we have the most connections. 

FK: What caused rye to be dropped from the Chicago Board of Trade?

Rye was not being grown as much in the 1970s… So Rye was a very big grain product in the United States during the colonial period, and then up until Prohibition. And Prohibition really changed the markets for rye, because a lot of rye at that point was going to whiskey. But also the agricultural Green Revolution really radically changed the the American farming landscape. So that was with the massive changes in wheat corn, and soy production, which became much larger in commodities. And because the palate for food was changing in the United States and also around much of the globalized market there, the United States, with its production of commodity wheat, enabled there to be much more wheat bread that is delicious, and products made out of wheat, whether that is pizza and pasta or certain crackers. People love wheat. It’s soft, it’s sweet, it’s delicious. The gluten develops, and it’s so much easier to work with. For home bakers as well, there’s a reason that you’ve probably never heard of anyone making a rye cake or, you know, a rye pizza… It’s just stubborn.

So tastes changed. After Prohibition, there was a shift to having more neutral-flavored clear liquors. And so rye also fell off the wagon there. The market for rye bread and also for rye whiskey or rye liquor really changed, and concomitantly there is also a shift in the amount of subsidized and inexpensive corn and soy that was available for animal feed. So farmers were and ranchers were less interested in providing that for their for their pigs and cows. Rye is still a common animal feed in Europe, but not so much in the United States. And, you know, a lot of that has to do with certain ag. policies that have shifted that away.

FK: What about the farmers in more modern times? Are they receiving subsidies for growing rye?

Farmers who are growing rye are not subsidized to grow rye, they’re growing it because they recognize its impact and value on their own farmland, and are hoping for a market. Many farmers who grow corn and soy are doing it purely to just make money on that. And even if they don’t get a crop, they have insurance. That’s not the case with Rye. The insurance that Rye provides is what happens in the soil.

Also, it hasn’t received the love and attention and dollars and the scientific and other research communities. And so a lot of the rye that people are planting and getting is heirloom or landrace varieties. These are varieties that have been around for a long time. The right genes have not really been tampered with or like selected for in the ways that others other plant varieties have. And so there is so much more flavor with right, and there’s so much more depth to the different varieties themselves. And it’s really exciting to be baking with those. 

FK: What projects are Rye Revival currently working on?

AR: We’re trying to get more research done on rye to understand, you know, just truly how much carbon rye can take out of the atmosphere with its really robust root systems. Rye has the deepest roots of any annual grain, and it’s also the cold hardiest. Between the fact that it can grow roots that are up to seven feet deep with over 300 feet of root hairs, and the fact that it’s the last thing that you can plant in the winter, it really has a great opportunity in most parts of America- if not across the the temperate world- to really prevent erosion as a winter cover crop. Also, if grown full term, we can really take advantage of its photosynthesis and potential to put carbon underground. We want to measure that, and understand what’s the difference between a farm that’s just cover cropping with your rye versus one that’s growing at full term? What are ways of growing it that can be better for different farming environments, whether that’s in Texas and Oklahoma, Oklahoma, which grows more right than any other state in America or, you know, places in Wisconsin where Rye’s the only thing that farmers can plant after their corn harvest. 

We want to expand the scientific literature on rye to better understand [different farming practices], and take our anecdotal evidence and push that into real hard scientific evidence, or to translate scientific evidence from Europe into something that can be seen and recognized here in America. We’re also working with Mad Agriculture, which is an organization out of Boulder, Colorado, to help market rye. So Mad Ag. has worked on Kernza with the Perennial Promise Growers to really find a market for them, and they strongly believe in the power of regenerative agriculture. And so to recognize that Rye is among the best, if not the best annual grain crops that can really make a regenerative impact on and climate resilient impact on farms. [Expanding the scientific literature] is going to help us find markets for consumer packaged goods. So for, you know, breads and crackers and cookies and pasta and beer and distilled goods, whiskeys, gins and vodka, but also, you know, the feed market because that really is what moved the needle.

There’s a couple grant projects underway that June Russel is involved with at the University of Vermont and Wisconsin doing a variety trial testing. There is an increasing amount of excitement towards rye, which the Rye revival, you know, is really trying to champion. We can say there’s a rye revival, there’s a renaissance, there’s enthusiasm for rye, and any time we’re talking about rye, it is a good thing. We need to just be planting more rye and finding more markets for that.

Ultimately, Rye Revival is there to help educate consumers about the benefits of human nutrition, animal nutrition, the environmental impact. That’s one of the reasons that Revival is partnering with the Rye and Cassoulet event. It’s to be there to educate folks not just on how and why rye can be delicious. I think that a lot of the Empire Whiskey and the breads speak for themselves.

To [help people] understand that there’s something more than just that flavor, Revival is working on developing a much more robust program for Rye Week 2023. A few years ago, through the efforts of the Empire Rye Whiskey distilleries, New York State legislators created what’s known as Rye Week, which is generally the third week or so of October. For that week, Rye Revival is going to help promote and create a slate of programing that, you know, educates the public about the great benefits of Rye, and also showcases a lot of producers, farmers and processors of rye and places that highlight that. So that could be bars and bakeries and distilleries, but it could also be like a community food hub in the Hudson Valley.

It’s also interesting that [Rye Revival] is a volunteer project for everyone. We’re trying to develop and formalize roles and get funding so we can really more concretely and seriously do this work. 

FK: How do you hope Rye Revival will evolve?

AR: I want Rye Revival to be seen as the go-to resource for rye—for farmers, processors (millers, maltsters, bakers, brewers, and distillers), researchers, and consumers. We are in the early stages of developing a “Rye Resource Room” and more comprehensively laying the groundwork for Rye Revival. This digital space, the Rye Resource Room, will be a source for scientific articles and lay writings on rye as well resources for where people can buy rye flour and other products; the health benefits to people, animals, and the environment; and where people can visit rye farmers, bakeries, and distilleries, or at least see on a map who’s growing rye in different regions to understand that they exist in a world that is adjacent to rye farmland; and because rye is not traded like other commodities, we can remove the cellophane veil behind where people’s grain is coming from so that they can see themselves and their region’s commitment to rye.

Many craft distilleries that are making rye whiskey know exactly who grew their rye. And that’s really exciting! So for the distilleries to market that, which there are a handful of distilleries that do that and in New York, especially with Empire Rye but also there’s a few distilleries in in Michigan and Nevada even that are growing rye that are that are identifying their rye farmers also in Washington and Minnesota. It’s really exciting to see the connections and for the product to be taking pride in their source. I think that’s really, really powerful and for people to recognize that.

To paraphrase Wendell Berry, “drinking is an agricultural act”. And to quote Wendell Berry, “eating is an agricultural act”. So when you’re buying farmer-ground flour at your New York City green market that’s coming from Thor Oechsner’s farm in the Finger Lakes; that is something really powerful. And if you’re not buying that flour, then you’re buying another flour at a grain market or you’re going to She Wolf Bakery, which works with local New York growers and mills. That’s really cool and that’s really powerful to be able to see where your food is coming from.

And so I think that the Resource Room will allow that to happen on a much larger scale. But also, you know, it sort of almost as like a teach a person to fish moment where we provide a little more information than they otherwise would be able to find. But we’re doing so in an accessible format that is accessible for researchers and for consumers. But also if someone is growing rye, or thinking about growing rye, they can look at it as farmers thinking about growing rye, they can look at it and understand just what sort of markets they can find, or how they realize that there’s a bakery near them or there’s a mill near them, or there’s a maltster near them that could be a potential market for their value added grains. 

In Europe, at least, it’s shown that you can use significantly fewer antibiotics for pig production. And so especially in Scandinavia, people are feeding rye to pigs. They’re using less antibiotics, and the animals are still healthy and they’re still yielding a lot. It would be great for the American farm system to shift over to that because there’s so much more rye consumers if you think about animals than people at the moment. And that’s going to help us, you know, convert millions of acres of land to putting a little rye on there. Rye can also easily convert and be adapted into a corn soy rotation because it’s an annual grain. It can help farmers who are growing corn and soy maintain their farmland, prevent soil erosion, increase the biodiversity on their farms, and strengthen their local agro ecosystems, while also reducing, [for example], the erosion into the Mississippi Delta and thus creating the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. Rye can help all that, and farmers can still grow corn and soy because rye is an annual grain, it can just make that corn and soy better. And because rye is a gateway to organic it can make those corn and soy is depending on what the farmers want to do at them even better. So that’s the pipe dream. 

FK: What can consumers do to get involved?

AR: Choosing liquor made out of 51% or more rye is going to be something that means that so much more farmland was devoted to rye when it could have been given to something else. And so between rye’s climate mitigation benefits, but also just not planting another crop at that time, or ensuring that you are planting rye as a as a cover crop just means great things for the farmland. And so if one is thinking purely about sustainability metrics going to their liquor store and buying rye would, to my understanding, be the most sustainable choice.

Which is why the Rye and Cassoulet event is so exciting, because it’s focusing rye as whiskey but also rye as bread and that bread being baked by Moonrise Bakehouse in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, which is a great bakery, and they work with GrowNYC local grain sheds, and also the rye bread company that I have, Black Rooster Food, which makes 100% rye sourdough bread which is not the most common bread to find. 

FK: Do you have a favorite rye recipe for us to try?

AR: For those looking for an approachable bread, something that’s a lot more fun: any time you’re making a wheat bread, throwing in 25% to 30% rye. And for those with a sweet tooth, you can also make a rye brownie. 

But I do have a favorite rye recipe! When we were schmoozing at the beginning of the call, you mentioned that I was a homebaker educator. And one of the things that I have been pushing during my classes has been for people to be making bagels with some rye flour. So I think that a 25% or 30% rye bagel is a delicious option, and very accessible for people, especially because bagels are made with a high protein and wheat flour. In order for them to have that integrity that a bagel needs, substituting 20 or 30% of the flour for for rye won’t affect the bagels rise in a serious way. Really, it just adds a lot more depth to that, to the rye flavor. And if you’re making a true bagel, then you’re also using malt in there. So your bagel then becomes: barley, which is the bulk of the malt that’s made in the world, wheat and rye. You get to see and taste many different farming systems, and all can be winter crops. And all are really important to protecting our farmland. But more importantly, rye just gives you so much more integrity and additional flavors than you would have if you’re just using wheat. And so I think that’s a really easy, exciting way to get in there.

To learn more about rye, and have a taste of the sustainable grain yourself, join Avery and Rye Revival at A Night of Rye and Cassoulet on February 22nd. If you can’t make it out to Brooklyn, head over to Rye Revival’s website to keep up with the rye revolution.

Food Karma: Can you tell us more about yourself and your long culinary career?

Chef Julian Medina: I had a passion for cooking when I was very young — like 16 or 17 years old. It was not such a popular career in Mexico back then and there were only 1 or 2 culinary schools that you could go to. And when my friends were going to college to pursue a career, I went to a restaurant to train and work as a helper, because I wanted to know if I was gonna like it or not before I dedicated 100% of my time to it. And yes, indeed I loved it! The kitchen, the adrenaline and the passion for it — everything. 

Then I went on working at a French restaurant in Mexico City as a cook. And I climbed my way up to become a sous chef, before deciding that I need new challenges. So I came to New York 25 years ago and worked in different restaurants for a year before going to the French Culinary Institute. 

My passion for cooking started in Mexico, but it’s funny because when I was hired to open a Mexican restaurant, I didn’t know much about Mexican cuisine or cooking because you know, my background was in French cooking! So I started combining the French techniques with Mexican ingredients, and it was just so much fun to do so.

FK: How exactly have you been doing that?

JM: I usually modify a few French recipes — ranging from reductions, sauces and aioli — with Mexican ingredients. For example, for a wine reduction instead of French wine I would use Mexican wine or mezcal. I also use these sometimes to do flambé with the shrimps and fish. It just comes naturally to me as a Mexican and a classically French-trained chef.

FK: Is this the team that you will bring to Bowl of ‘Zole 2022?

JM: Yes! And I’m also bringing those from La Chula — a taqueria in the style of Mexico City I created with Meghan Manzi. She is a really good cook and we developed together a very straightforward Mexican menu where we have shrimp tacos with melted cheese, birria tacos, tortas, nachos and burritos. We have three locations — one in Harlem, one in Washington Heights in a food hall and one in Terminal B of LaGuardia Airport.

FK: Sounds like a great lineup! Would you like to share more about the dishes you will be serving at the event?

JM: The pozole from Toloache will be a take on ramen but we are making it with pozole. We are using pork bone, the chile guajillo and a little bit of miso. We are also doing a porchetta with pozole corn to create the umami with all of them. The team from La Chula will bring along taco al pastor as well. In it there will be shaved pork, salsa morita, onion and pineapple.

FK: How do you think people will react to your food at Bowl of ‘Zole 2022?

JM: Taco al pastor is a pretty straightforward taco in Mexico so I think everyone will love that. Plus I have one of my chefs shaving the pork to order so it will be kind of dramatic but also traditional and authentic.

FK: Do you have any expectations for the event?

JM: This is the third year that we are doing Bowl of ‘Zole. I really like the vibe of the event because it’s a little chilly out, people can enjoy nice hot pozoles and mezcals, lots of restaurants showcasing their techniques and traditions to make the same popular dishes in Mexico. It’s just a really well-balanced event. I just want to go and enjoy, have fun and see my chef friends while trying out different varieties of mezcals and tequilas! 

There are still a few more months till both Brisket King and Rib King 2023, but our holiday-exclusive for Bowl of ‘Zole is coming soon to Denver on March 30 and Boston on April 12. In the meantime, you can follow and support chef Medina by visiting his many restaurants in New York City or his website and social media account.

Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself, chef Francis?

Chef Francis Rattantana: So my name is Francis Rattantana and I’m the Chef de Cuisine at Tong Brooklyn. I have been working in the restaurant business for 10 to 11 years, mostly in Asian restaurants ranging from Japanese, Thai, Chinese and Korean. I do have 2 years in Italian cooking and 1 year in French. In terms of cooking style, I try to create traditional flavors with modern techniques and equipment. 

FK: And how does that apply to what you are doing at Tong Brooklyn?

FR: Well, it’s a little hard to describe but sometimes there are more efficient ways to make a certain dish. With dishes that require a long brazing time, for example, you can add a crockpot to the equation to shorten it. 

Nonetheless, we try to keep it as authentic as possible by getting authentic, traditional ingredients in all of our dishes. We also pay close attention to the flavor and try to keep it as Thai as possible. 

FK: Can you take us through the menu for more details?

FR: Sure! So our restaurant’s concept is a small tapas style with small plating coupled with beer and wine, with our Kub Klaem section. We also have familiar dishes that people are used to ordering at Thai restaurants like Pad See Ew or Tom Yum Sea Food Soup, so our customers can be comfortable with the stuff they know and adventurous with the stuff they don’t yet know about Thai cuisine, both in the same meal. 

What I think really separates us from other Thai restaurants is how hard we try to keep it interesting with menu items that you just can’t find anywhere else — which are still authentic Thai dishes in their own way!

FK: That’s really cool! Why did you choose the focus on small plates and alcohol pairing though?

FR: This is for you to come in and try as many new dishes as you can before getting full! It’s also for people to be more comfortable ordering an unfamiliar dish, knowing that they won’t have to waste a big portion if they don’t end up liking it. 

FK: Do you think this small-tapas concept along with your cooking style — incorporating new techniques with traditional flavors — might affect what you guys are trying to do in terms of authenticity?

FR: That’s a really good question! We have thought about this as we set up and experiment with our recipes, and I don’t think they are able to jeopardize our authenticity. The plating might be modern but the ingredients are still there, the flavors are still there, and our intention to keep the Thai traditions are definitely always there!

FK: Glad to hear that! Now that this authentic presence is settled, will you guys focus more on making the drinks more Thai as well, or will you try to add in more modernity to the concept?

FR: We actually are gonna focus on both at the same time. Authentic food will come first for sure, and a modern touch will make the presentation more pleasing to our customers and fitting to our concept. We are also trying to add Asian influence into our drinks menu for sure. 

FK: Can you let us in on the new menu?

FR: I can with the food! We are gonna have a new seafood stir-fried called Pad Cha Talay with a new Corn Salad. We are also adding the Massaman Brisket that got us Best Original Dish at Brisket King to the menu temporarily. It might stay permanently if the customers love it. We didn’t actually smoke this one, but we brined it with fish sauce, water and sugar for 18 to 24 hours, before confitting it for 4 to 5 hours using lemongrass, bay leaves and some other Southeast Asian herbs. 

(This was Francis’s answer at the time of the interview. All three dishes are still on the menu for you to enjoy right now!)

FK: I love to see the Brisket King influence! Have you been to events like ours before?

FR: Brisket King 2022 was actually our first restaurant event! I have been to other events in my chef career, but this was also my first BBQ event. 

FK: And how was your experience?

FR: I liked it! I got to meet a lot of other chefs, and some of them were from all over the country. I wanted to come to Rib King too but it was a little too far away. And we didn’t have enough staff on a Saturday. But I’m glad that I get to show people that we can BBQ brisket and add Thai flavors onto it as well! Can’t wait to come back next year!

There are still a few more months till both Brisket King and Rib King 2023, but our holiday-exclusive for Brisket King as well as for Pig Island are out! You can check them out right here and here! For the meantime, visit Tong Brooklyn in Bushwick for a New Year’s Eve celebration on Saturday and show your support on their social media!

Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself and Eden Ciders!

Eleanor Leger: Hi! I’m Eleanor Leger and I’m the owner and founder of Eden Specialty Ciders in Newport, Vermont. I was working in finance and my husband was a chemistry teacher (he still is) in 2007, when we started producing ice ciders in the basement of our farmhouse in West Charleston. One thing led to another, and now we make a wide range of different kinds of ciders, but all from locally and sustainably grown apples. 

FK: Can you tell us more about the apple varieties in use at Eden?

EL: So I think we’re just really lucky that we started in an area with enterprising growers like Steve Wood and Terry Maloney who started growing interesting fruits and apples for ciders. When we just got started, we went down to Scott Farm and they had 120 varieties, which aided our initial testing and playing around with apples to figure out our blend. Our ciders are delicious, and most of it is from the fruit itself. We’re just trying not to screw up the wonderful flavors that were already there. 

FK: Where are these apples coming from?

EL: We have a network of 10 small orchards that we source from. And this is the most fun time of the year, because we’re just in the middle of getting fruits from all of our partners and see what we have to work with this year, and it’s never totally predictable because there are just so many variables to apple-growing. But that’s part of the fun as well!

It’s really our passion to keep seventy-year-old or one hundred-year-old trees that would otherwise be cut down for development, because the small orchards here have to compete with the giants in upstate New York. 

FK: Are there a lot of disadvantages for the apple growers  in Vermont in comparison to those in upstate New York?

EL: It’s really about the topography. You can’t really have large-scale orchards in Vermont because we have mountains that get in the way. We’re just small-scale and remote, which is why I think Vermont has such a reputation for specialty food products, because we have to do something special considering our small scale. 

FK: What makes Eden Ciders so special?

EL: We use a wine rather than beer point of view to make ciders, which means we press everything at peak flavor, and then we age it before it gets packaged as opposed to pressing groceries stores’ varieties out of cold storage and fermenting it fast. You just have a lot more opportunities for flavor development this way. And there is a wave of people making ciders this way and putting so much care into picking out the right variety for their flavor profile. 

FK:  Can you share with us some of your favorite offerings?

EL: Of course! We’re super excited because we’re about to launch a new line of bottled ciders with brand new labels from the Feel Good Studio, which is part of Good Beer Hunting. These are dry, fruity and bright, and they’re not ice ciders. They’ll be formally launching in the first quarter of 2023, but we’re doing some sneak peek stuff.

FK: Do you guys do a lot of collaborations with other cideries at Eden?

EL: Yeah! So we have done a few over the years. The first one was with Angry Orchard and the cider was called Motion Number 1. One of my favorites was the one I did with Ellen Cavalli from Sonoma Country’s Tilted Shed Ciderworks. We were both Ellie and she was like “Maybe we should start a band” but I’m like “No we should do a cider.” That was 2017, and it just went so perfectly that we agreed to never do this again, because it will never be as good. 

FK: Last but not least, would you like to tell us a little more about your virtual tasting experiences?

EL: So we started doing that when the pandemic hit because we had a fairly robust e-commerce business, and it has been super fun! And a lot of companies now still have remote workers in multiple locations even if they go to the same office. They want to do things to bring people together and cider tasting is one of those. We also did birthday parties and other celebrations. It’s great to talk to people about ciders, especially during the pandemic when I couldn’t do that in-person anymore.

If you want to book a virtual tasting session, visit Eden Ciders’ website or follow them on social media to catch up with their actions. You can also find Eden Ciders near you through this website.

Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself and your culinary career!

Chef Emily Hersh: Sure! My name is Emily Hersh. I’m from Texas, born and raised in San Antonio. I have been a plant-based chef for four and a half years, so I’m still a baby in the industry.

I was a life-long dancer growing up, got my undergrad in kinesiology, being in dance teams and interacting with other dancers — and kinda didn’t know what to do with my career. Through that experience, I ended up developing a really negative relationship with food. And the way I healed from that was actually learning how to cook, and loving how to cook, specifically plant-based food. 

FK: Why did you decide to shift your diet?

EH: When I was a dancer and I developed an eating disorder, I was really just searching for one, a normal way to eat, and two, a creative outlet, because dance was such a creative outlet for me — it’s my whole personality. So when I quit dancing, I was really searching for something to feel like myself again. 

And I had a vegan roommate at the time who cooked all the time. I just watched her and saw her love for food, so I was like “Wow! Maybe if I just start cooking and eating plant-based, I will feel like myself again.” And after that, the lifestyle just stuck — I felt like I was eating like a normal person, I wasn’t shaming myself for food, and I was so much more passionate about cooking.

Looking back, I thought that I was really fortunate to have done this healing subconsciously through food. That’s why I want to help others to talk about mental health and their struggles over food, and be able to help them through food. 

FK: And how have you been doing that?

EH: During the pandemic, I moved home to Texas and worked my way through different categories of the culinary world: recipe development with my gluten-free almond flour mix, food media with my YouTube channel where I invite people to cook plant-based food for them while we talk mental health, and I was invited to compete in Hell’s Kitchen (and got top seven!).

But more on my YouTube series, which is actually now on hold because restaurant life is crazy. It’s called “The Self-Help Chef” and it combines experts in different fields like therapists, nutritionists and even Run-D.M.C, and I’ll facilitate the conversations through cooking plant-based recipes using ingredients we both love. Some of the past episodes are “Hot Noodle Soup and Therapy” or “Being Confident in Your Passion and Veggie Burger.” 

It’s really fun to cook for people and hear their advice because I’m no expert on therapy or anything like that, but it’s great to listen to and spread their stories. Our founder Kerry Fitzmaurice was actually on the show once and that’s where we developed our Impossible Cut 1.0.

FK: And was that also how you guys decided to start Pure Grit?

EH: Actually, while I was in Texas, Kerry found me through Instagram and she reached out saying “Hey! I’ve had this idea for vegan BBQ for three years now, and we’re thinking of opening a restaurant.” They were already hitting it off with sauces and rubs, and I was looking to move back to New York, so why not? Texas BBQ and vegan BBQ — all things that I love. 

So we partnered up and did a couple of pop-ups in Queens and Brooklyn. Both of them sold out so we know that we had a good concept and good food. I developed the menu for the next couple months using inspiration from Texas and what my dad loved to grill, and just kinda vegified it. 

It’s basically taking the delicious dishes that I grew up with and making them more welcoming for everybody. And that’s basically our goal for this restaurant — making good food that happens to be vegan and not shying away anyone. 

FK: Tell us more about the restaurant and your menu.

EH: Yeah! So we just went through a menu transition. We’ve decided to trim down our menu and make it more fast-casual because it might look a bit intimidating to people who are not plant-based. 

Our bites are fun food that you can share: our cashew queso — inspired by Texas queso with jalapenos and tomatoes mixed in, our fried tofu bites — fried tempura-battered tofu, our mac and cheese — which took a long time to find the right cheese for. We also have great salads and desserts, with classic sides.

Things that we are known for are our smoked main plates. We smoke each thing for about an hour, then we toss them into BBQ sauce. For our Impossible Cut, which is our vegan brisket, we mix Impossible ground beef, lentils and onions, our rub and sauce, then we form it into a loaf and smoke it. And we actually cover it in BBQ sauce and burn it to give it an amazing crust, before re-hydrating it so it slices like brisket. The mushroom, jackfruit, tofu — all smoked for an hour — are also really yummy.

The sandwiches that we’re keeping on our menu are our fried chicken and waffle sandwich, served open-faced on a waffle with hand-breaded chicken and BBQ ranches or hot maple butter. We’re also doing a sandwich on a bun coming soon, which is a bit more casual, and we’re still doing our Impossible queso burger with our secret sauce. 

All of these are awesome, and they are filling but they don’t weigh you down. My sister came in one day, and she’s a big meat-eater. She ate the fried chicken sandwich and she said “I’m full, but I feel like I could run, and it also feels good not to eat a chicken today.”

FK: And how have other customers reacted to the concept and the food?

EH: The reactions have been mixed but I would say it’s mostly positive though. There are a lot of open-minded people in New York and even the meat-eaters would come in and check out what this is. A guy came in the other day and tried our sample platter — which we usually give people when they are on the fence — and loved it!

I think what we still struggle with is how people think of “vegan” as a bad word. We don’t have a lot of messaging about that around here. People are very set in their ways, but like I said, our goal for the restaurant is not to make vegan food, but to make good food that happens to be vegan. 

FK: What about among the BBQ community?

EH: Very positive actually! We did a couple of events at Pig Beach in Queens and there was a blogger called NYCBarbecue, and he’s actually the one who really pushed for us to be successful. That’s really surprising because the people who are really supportive of us are the people who are in the BBQ community.

There are still people that love BBQ and aren’t really pitmasters that are still hesitant, because they think BBQ should be one way, but there’s Korean BBQ, Brazilian BBQ — there’s BBQ everywhere and so many ways to do it. It’s something that people don’t think a lot about but we realized that BBQ is just a word for a lot of things and it shouldn’t be so cut off. It should be inclusive because BBQ is about community and good food, and that’s what we have to offer to you all.

FK: Are you excited to meet all these people again at Pig Island?

EH: I’m so excited! It was such a fun experience at Pig Beach so I’m sure Pig Island is gonna be amazing as well. To see pitmasters in their fields and their elements is so inspiring, and to see others who are also passionate about food is something that Pure Grit loves.

FK: And do you have any specific goal for this year?

EH: I just want to make people happy with food. That’s my goal everyday — to be able to serve excellence, community and happiness all in one bite!

Try Pure Grit BBQ and meet chef Emily this Saturday at Pig Island, or support her at her restaurant and through social media platforms. Pure Grit also offers a student discount to Baruch students and they will be at VeganDale in Randall Island this September 24. Come by and try more great food that also happens to be vegan!

Food Karma: Tell us more about yourself and your chef career!

Chef Robert Austin Cho: I’m Robert Austin Cho. I’m the chef, pitmaster and owner of Kimchi Smoke. Currently I have two locations in Westwood and Ridgewood, New Jersey, but it all started out as a pop up in 2013. I don’t have a formal chef training, but some time in the mid 2000s, I was watching TV and seeing BBQ, smoked meat, all that, blew my mind! I instantly gravitated toward it. 

Living in an apartment at that time, I bought a small grill, went to the park and just started smoking some ribs. And I thought I got pretty good at it! It was just a hobby at the time — I didn’t try to sell it, just do it more and more. I would go out to eat at BBQ restaurants, read about places. And after a while, I thought “I can make food like these people,” why not give it a shot?

FK: And was there anyone aiding your aim while you were giving it a shot with Kimchi Smoke?

RAC: I didn’t have an official mentor figure, but Aaron Franklin was on TV at the time becoming a household name. He’s a guy that I studied a lot — watched all his videos, anything about him I would read and see what he was doing — because I wanted to perfect my brisket like he did. 

I also read a cooking book, “Smoke & Pickles” by chef Edward Lee. His story resonated with me since he’s Korean-American, raised in New York then decided to move down South and became influenced by Southern cuisine. His words definitely gave me a lot of inspiration and guidance throughout my career. 

Over the years, I watched a lot of Food Network and saw a lot of great people, but the first one I saw was Bobby Flay, and then I got to meet him and then competed with him on his show, which was pretty cool. Chef Carl Ruiz came into my restaurant once and we became friends. We spoke at Pig Island 2019 right before he passed. I looked up to him as a chef and a Jersey guy. The way he ran social media definitely influenced me to be more of myself. He gave me great advice and sadly, we lost him way too soon.

FK: Apart from these influential people, were there any other inspirations, like your family or close friends?

RAC: One thing that I’m very proud of is because I’m Korean-American, I believe Koreans in particular have a very good palate. That might be coming from our parents because they’re very picky. If something’s slightly too salty or spicy, or too sweet, that would really bother me. That was the foundation of my flavor profile. So I incorporated that type of standard into my food and in a sense, it’s Korean BBQ or Korean food because of how well-balanced it is. 

People also ask me if the recipes are family recipes. My parents did not teach me how to cook but when I look back, since they were always working and I’m home by myself a lot, I just ended up cooking things for myself as a mode of survival. And that’s also how Kimchi Smoke came to be because there was always kimchi in the house and I would just slab them over frozen pizzas or leftovers — that’s the way I ate things.

And that’s the weird thing, because I was always ashamed to be Korean growing up, but I just love Korean food!

FK: How did those mixed feelings play a part in your upbringing?

RAC: So I was born in South Korea, came to the States when I was 4 years old — I’ve been here pretty much all my life. Growing up here at a time when there weren’t so many Asian-Americans going to school, maybe five kids in the whole school. I always felt like I was one of two Asian kids in my class, or even the whole grade, so I just wanted to fit in. 

I was shying away from my ethnic background, embarrassed to be Korean at times. When we go to the beach, my parents would bring kimchi and smelly food while I just want to eat hamburgers and hot dogs. When I started doing Kimchi Smoke, it was healing. It wasn’t my goal to do it as healing but as I was doing Kimchi Smoke and promoting Korean food, meeting all different people, it was great! 

It’s also because growing up, I was considered too American by some Koreans, and not American enough for Americans. I felt accepted by neither but as people accepted my food as BBQ, I felt acceptance of me as an American. Which is why I’m trying to make my BBQ just BBQ — I don’t even have to say this is Texas Korean BBQ or any other label there is. 

FK: And has the unique naming of your dishes, like Chonut, Cholent or Chominican rice, helped you a lot with this?

RAC: Yes, for sure! It’s breaking down barriers in people’s minds about what type of food they are having and what it’s supposed to taste like. But it’s also two-fold. My name just somehow magically goes with a lot of things, and when I’m doing a hashtag on social media, if I put “Cho” in front of something, no one else is gonna have that. This is for marketing as anyone can easily search for my dishes on social media.

FK: Has your Korean heritage ever been an obstacle on your way to become a pitmaster?

RAC: When I did my first BBQ competition in 2013, when I showed up with my banner that said “Kimchi Smoke,” I could feel the racial overtone. It feels like I’m on a middle-school basketball court again, being picked last because “he’s Chinese, he can’t play basketball.” It felt like I was going against the grain, definitely. 

But now it’s 2022, I know the sport of BBQ has changed a lot, there are a lot of different chains and different styles of BBQ-ing. It is definitely changing, but when I first started out I did feel like an outsider at times. And when I didn’t get invitations to festivals or competitions, I do wonder, because there usually aren’t a lot of people of different ethnicities at those as well. 

And I’m from Jersey, so it’s like a double-disrespect. So I’m always working hard and bringing my A-game to events like Rib King or Brisket King, because I’m representing Korean flavors, I’m representing Jersey. In 2019 when I won People’s Choice in Brisket King, it was for Jersey, because I know it doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. And I feel really good this year too because the SmoKING of Meats won and he’s from Jersey too!

FK: And how did you feel being a part of those past Food Karma events?

RAC: I guess, prior to 2019, there were three years that I’ve done it and a part of me felt that I had no chance of winning, because I was nobody. But I always thought, I love what I do and my meat is just as good as anyone’s there. And I’ve gone around tasting other’s briskets and ribs — which tasted really good — and I know I’m in the big league now. But I’m always going in thinking I’m the underdog, I have to work hard and bring my A-game, and go represent.

The crowds at these events are also great, and that’s the reason I keep coming back. It’s definitely exciting just to be there slicing the meat and watching people taste it, especially with their reactions afterward. The people are the most important to me, and that is why I’m so proud of my People’s Choice award, because ultimately it’s the people that are coming to the restaurant and supporting my food. 

FK: Are you coming back next year?

RAC: I think about that a lot actually. In the past, I always thought I’m not gonna do it again, but then I always ended up going. So we’ll see!

If you can’t wait till next year to see chef Robert, support him through social media platforms or visit him at 301 Center Ave., Westwood, New Jersey. His personal accounts are pretty fun to follow too if you want to see his journey to become a hipper food influencer.

Food Karma: How has your family influenced your culinary path?

Chef Jesse Jones: My inspiration came from my grandmother in the beginning because I stayed with her when I was four years old. And being four years old, I was in love with BBQ. Every time I go down south with my sister, we would hit the BBQ joint where two ladies with the old country hats would bring us the best chopped BBQ and big pieces of white bread. And that has always been stuck in my head. I also touched on my aunts and my family a bit in the book, and even as I got older now they still inspire me so much. We had an aunt who was the pork queen, and what she did with pork was unbelievable, you know. And I made a great potato salad because of them.

FK: Did you also learn your storytelling skills from your aunts?

JJ: Yep! My aunt Bull was a master storyteller, she would gather people in a circle and just talk for days. When I was young, I went over my mouth. I thought that if I stood up and talked to someone, I would like, die. But the differences between my stories and hers are that mine came from redemption, pain, suicide, losing everything, yet my wife’s still with me and my family stays together. And people feel it, you know, when they come and when they taste the food, they really feel it. And so my book was for more people to know these stories and then see it through my dishes.  

FK: Can people still get the book now?

JJ: Yeah, of course! “Pow! My Life in 40 Feasts” – 240 pages of recipes that are dear to my heart. They all mean so much to me because they are from my family, from chefs that I worked for, and it just tells my story about dreaming big and never giving up, even when I lost my house, my restaurant and really fell to the bottom. It’s available on Amazon, or on my website. I have books available if people want autographed copies also.

FK: That sounds amazing! And are you celebrating the book turning five this year?

JJ: Yeah I’m doing an event on July 31, and I’m teaming up with the Montclair Brewery using their Juneteenth special craft beer with hibiscus red hop. That’s gonna go with my fried chicken and sweet potato waffle. For $30 you get a signed copy, a beer and the sweet potato waffle and fried chicken.

FK: Sounds like an awesome deal!

JJ: Yeah! And if you love beer it’s gonna be a great microbrew fest for you. For this book, I just want young chefs to feel inspired and continue to work hard. My whole book is about being of color in this business, but with a positive note and solidarity in mind.

FK: Is it also an obstacle in the BBQ world being of color?

JJ: I think most Black chefs have had their ups and downs and adversities that they had to deal with in the industry. Growing up I didn’t want to be Black, ‘cause I always thought about why we had to go through so much, why we had to deal with all these problems. But when I get a little older, I’m happy to be Black and come back to support the community and maybe make one fewer kid feel that way. So I don’t really think about it when people say mean things and just go on with my own stuff. I think of them with a been-there-done-that mindset, because people were calling me all sorts of names when I was still in the kitchen.

FK: And how has your culinary training influenced your BBQing?

JJ: Over the years as a chef, I dibble and dabble in BBQ-ing quite a bit. Most chefs can smoke and we had to when we were in culinary school, but the pitmasters didn’t go to school but traveled around the country and became much more creative. But being a chef helped me a lot with developing and fixing my recipes. The techniques also come in handy when I need to marinade or brine.

But the most important part of my time in the kitchen for BBQ-ing was when I was a cleanup guy and the chefs wouldn’t let me touch their meat. That’s when I know I gotta teach myself, keep learning on my own and just keep on improving. It was the same with the pitmasters down South, I had all these questions for them but they would never tell me. But I’m gonna keep learning and figure things out myself, adding more of my inventions, just like my grandmother always taught me.

FK: So BBQ-ing is also an outlet for your creativity?

JJ: Yeah for sure! Like I did strudel last Pig Island and I got the technique award because I was doing my own French puff pastry, all fresh and homemade. I worked with master chefs and pastry chefs as apprentices, and now I’m here to show you all that I’ve learned.

FK: Are you excited to bring all these stories to Pig Island this September?

JJ: Yes, they always want to hear the stories, and they come up early and talk to me while I get set up. They’ll be like “Yo chef Jesse!” and I’ll be like “Heyyy!” So I’ll definitely be bringing the stories along to make their money worth, and hopefully touch some more people with my stories.

While Pig Island is a month away on September 10, you can catch up with chef Jesse by reading through his book “Pow! My Life in 40 Feasts,” which is celebrating its fifth year of publishing, or by following him on various social media platforms and reading our previous interview with the chef on his background and writing. 

You can find Zabb Pu Tawn at 1584 First Avenue in New York City. They were both at our Brisket King and Rib King event. 

Food Karma: Can you tell us more about your culinary background?

Chef Tony: I learned cooking from my parents. I started from cooking for friends and family, and his friends and family members loved my cooking. So I decided to open a restaurant in Thailand and we got very good responses from the customers. Later on, I decided to do something bigger, a catering service right here in Thailand. 

FK: When did you come to New York City?

CT: I had a chance to come here from Thailand ten years ago. And so I went and worked for multiple Thai restaurants to get more experience. And it was in 2015, when I was working for Zabb Elee in Queens that I won my Michelin star. Then I partnered up with Chanchai “Charles” Khampinchai right here to open up Zabb Pu Tawn in 2016. I love cooking and I prefer to focus more on the cooking to serve customers the most authentic Ishan and Northern Thai food. 

Chanchai “Charles” Khampinchai: Anything that he serves his family, he serves his diners, with heart.

Tachchapak Rittaprom (Chef Tony’s Daughter): But so much less spicy!

FK: Can you tell us more about Northern Thai food?

CT: A famous dish from Northern regions is larb, which is ground pork with marinade with larb powder, which we imported from Thailand, along with other spices like chilies and peppers, and a special Thai spice called “macquet” to make it smell really good. And then there’s also the Hung Lay ribs which won the Most Innovative award at Rib King, which use ginger, tamarind juice and cumin powder all mixed together. I marinade Hung Lay paste with pork ribs overnight and slow-cook the next day for a few hours to make the ribs tender.

FK: What about Isan food?

CT: For Isan, there’s Laab Gai, which is a minced chicken salad, with chili powder, roasted rice powder, lime juice, fish sauce, cilantro and scallion, and mint leaves as well. If you like it spicier, we can add more chili powder. And then there is the Tom Zabb spare rib soup, with well-done pork ribs, chili, fish sauce, roasted rice powder, lime juice and garnished with cilantro and scallion also. 

I also want to talk about Pad Thai, which is perhaps the most popular Thai food out there. I made the sauce for it from fish sauce, palm sugar and tamarind juice all mixed well together. This is authentic Thai, because other Thai restaurants would add vinegar, which is far too sour. 

FK: Is cooking with rib and brisket a big part of Thai cooking?

CT: Yes! We grill a lot of ribs for Brisket King and Rib King, which is a big part of Thai cuisine. I have been BBQ-ing since I was in Thailand so I’m used to dealing with ingredients like these.

FK: Are there specific techniques and differences to BBQ-ing the Thai way?

CT: The most important thing to me when grilling is the marinade. I usually marinade the beef overnight to make it more tender, and serve it with my special tamarind-based sauce to customers. In terms of techniques, I use high flame to make the outside more crispy while keeping the inside tender, and I flip the meat often to make sure it’s not burned.

FK: Have you been to other events like Rib King and Brisket King?

CT: These were our firsts.

FK: And how did you feel being a part of them?

CT: I was really happy when I got the invitation. I had so much fun there and I loved meeting all the customers in person, and they loved my cooking also!

CK: There was a long line of people waiting for his ribs!

FK: At Brisket King, you had a dish with an interesting backstory called “Crying Tiger Ribs.” Can you tell us more about the story and if you have any other similar backstory for your dishes?

CT: So a hunter went into the woods, and he saw a cow with a tiger bite. He then took the beef from the cow and he grilled it on an open flame, with delicious fat dripping down onto the fire. That is the tears that we were talking about. But the tiger was also crying because he couldn’t eat the yummy beef that the hunter was having right in front of his eyes.

FK: Such an awesome origin story! And how was winning the Most Innovative award at Rib King?

CT: I’m definitely very happy and proud of what I’ve done. I’m also very happy with customers’ response to my cooking-with-heart approach.

FK: In the future, do you plan to expand the menu and dive deeper into BBQ-ing?

CT: We have already been adding to our menu here at Zabb Pu Tawn, and we will be sure to accept any invites to similar events in the near future.

FK: Do you have anything else to share with our readers?

CT: That’s all for now, but I will be off to make Crying Tiger ribs for you right now!

As you might expect, I had a really good meal at Zabb Pu Tawn, with Crying Tiger ribs, chicken feet spicy soup and house-made sticky rice, all cooked by Chef Tony. If you want the delicious food without having to write a whole article, support Zabb Pu Tawn here and follow their actions on social media platforms.

Food Karma: Is it common for a university to have a meat processing facility?

Mike Lapi: No, we are the only SUNY institution that has a slaughterhouse on campus, and I’m pretty sure we’re one of the only few in the country that has a federal slaughterhouse that serves the outside community.

FK: How did you end up in this position?

ML: I actually went to school for fine art and ended up getting a job in a restaurant because I didn’t want to go home and milk cows again in the summer. I worked my way up in restaurants from being a dishwasher to head chef and ended up owning my own restaurant. When I owned my own restaurant, farmers started coming to me and offering whole animals. This was something new to me, and at that point I really gravitated towards utilizing everything I could from local sources. That was back in 2003, kind of before it was even a popular thing with restaurants. I started bringing back half pigs, whole pigs, cattle, poultry and learning how to break it down by hand with full utilization of everything that I was cutting for the restaurant. I taught myself how to break down carcasses and use every last piece of it.

In 2008 and 2009 when the economy crashed, we made a decision: we closed the restaurant, and I ended up moving back down to the Hudson Valley. My wife went back to school for nursing, and I ended up doing cabinetry for a couple years. Then I met Noah Sheetz around 2010 and I started working with the Chefs’ Consortium. He asked me if I wanted to cook at a culinary extravaganza event at SUNY Cobleskill. I’m from up there, why not? 

So I did the event, and the department chair at the time asked me if I was interested in teaching in the fall. I had never even thought of being in education whatsoever in my entire life, that’s not what I had designed my life to do. But once I started doing it, there was immense gratification in seeing students learning and the level of excitement when they would see things like fresh pasta being made or something that they’ve never seen before and getting to know these students semester after semester. I still have contact with students I’ve known for almost ten years. 

At that point I started adjuncting, and then within a year of adjuncting I got a call to come to the dean’s office. They wanted to have me design this farm to table class and also start teaching the meat processing classes. I was honest at that point, I said the farm to table thing is good but I’ve never processed meat in a federal establishment under processing guidelines. So I spent three semesters teaching meat processing in the culinary labs before the facility was finished in 2015. Once 2015 hit, I kind of migrated over across the road to do the meat processing in the new facility. At that point, I was just teaching the cutting classes. I learned how to adapt to production methods and then I started sitting in on the slaughter classes at the end of 2015. I spent a year on the slaughter floor every Monday, working there, learning, taking things in. Then at one point the instructor that was teaching the slaughter classes injured himself and didn’t come back. I did some more educational workshops on learning the slaughter practices. 

In 2017, I took over all the slaughter classes and the meat processing classes and was still teaching the farm to table classes. Once I got really into what I was doing over there and really established, I actually was hired solely by animal science, so I wasn’t teaching culinary classes anymore just because the scope of everything that happens in that facility: I’m teaching classes, I’m working on production and all that. I’m only at the plant now. I teach all the slaughter classes, lectures, intro classes and upper level technique classes.

FK: You said you didn’t want to go home and milk cows, did you grow up on a farm?

ML: My grandfather owned a farm and he would always line me up with jobs when I was done with college. One winter break, I had come home and he would have gotten me a job. The four years through high school I worked at a neighboring farm until I graduated. It was kind of weird how I got picked up to work at restaurants. I was in the grocery store in New Paltz. I was looking at the help wanted board outside the Shop Rite, and a woman asked if I was looking for a job. I said yes, and she said come to this restaurant tomorrow in Woodstock, we want to give you a tour and see if you want to start. I started off bussing tables and soon migrated right into the kitchen.

FK: Were you always interested in food and cooking?

ML: It was definitely a huge part of my life. My grandmother was Sicilian, and we always had big, elaborate family meals and really good food. My mother was a really good cook. In my household, we didn’t have a lot of toys or things but we always ate good. We didn’t have a lot of money but we always had really good food, no matter what. Sometimes the phone would be shut off but we would have good food. We always ate well and we always ate together.

FK: Do you still get to do any professional cooking?

ML: I still do events whenever possible. I have a big event coming up this summer for the SALT group in Schoharie. There were floods there ten years ago and this group provides funds to reestablish the area. I’m going to be doing a big farm to table event with them. And I still do events all summer. I do the ASA event up in Washington County. The truth of the matter is all the events I’ve done in the last five years have all been outdoors. I haven’t been in a kitchen in a while.

FK: Who is buying the meat you process at the plant?

ML: That’s one of the best things about my job. We are processing meat for local farms. A lot of the farms that I’m cutting meat for are farms that I knew when I had the restaurant. That’s what I’m really proud of: I’m doing a community service and I’m completely involving students in this educational process but making them aware that they are part of something bigger than a classroom. We’re processing meat for the outside community and we’re doing the best we possibly can to make it presentable so they can sell it.

FK: So it goes back to the farms directly and they sell it?

ML: Yeah, we’re a normal federal establishment. We slaughter and process meat. It’s sold at farmers markets, retail, all kinds of different venues.

FK: In learning about the different parts of the animal, do you have a favorite cut that is not super popular?

ML: Offal. I love educating customers on full utilization of their carcasses, like getting people to take back their organs, bones, everything like that.

FK: Are they receptive to that?

ML: Many are. One farm had such a great farmers market and had a twenty foot kitchen, I asked if they had tried making stock. He hadn’t, so I said give it a shot and see what happens. He came back to me a week later and said he ended up making like $600 off the stock.

FK: Are the other events you do similar to Pig Island?

ML: Yeah, a lot of them are big events, outside events, open fire events. I still love cooking but I love what I do now for sure.

FK: Since you started doing all this, have there been any major changes or trends?

ML: We’ve had such a demand for processing more, with all the meat shortages with covid and everything. People want to know where their food is coming from, so the response from the outside community is that people are going to farmers looking for local food. Then it’s just a backlash to the processors of how much they can take in. There’s a clear lack of meat processors in the country, so we’re starting to think outside the box of how we can train people, outside of just normal student access, to get into meat processing. We have a bunch of new programs that are going to be coming up in the fall.

FK: Do most of your students go on to do meat processing?

ML: No. For the most part, the normal student that I have doesn’t go on to be a meat processor. A lot of them go into being able to sell their meat through farmers’ markets. I kind of think of my role as kind of a dual purpose role: I’m not only teaching people how to be in the meat processing industry, but also I’m teaching young farmers how to sell their meat. I’m teaching people how to know what they’re selling and know what they’re cooking.

FK: Anything you’re excited about this year?

ML: I don’t know if I can really speak too much about it, but we’re actually in the process of creating new programs. We’ve been known for our summer program, so what we’re doing is building upon our summer program and starting to do more outside programming and extended, month long workshops. We have a lot of new stuff on the horizon that we’re developing, that we’re going to put out to the public to get more people into the industry and to train butchers.

FK: Tell us about your mushroom foraging.

ML: When I’m not working, I’m usually in the woods. Starting the end of April all the way up until November, any chance I get I’m out foraging mushrooms, plants, anything I can source locally to eat.

FK: How did you learn what was safe to eat?

ML: That was completely coincidental. Growing up, my father had brought home oyster mushrooms and puffballs and things like that, but one time I was walking through the forest and I walked over to these mushrooms. I knew I could visibly identify them just by looking at them, that’s a chanterelle. It just rang a bell. So I did all the research, I got all my field guides, I talked to experts and I got a positive ID on chanterelles. I had no idea they were in such abundance in my area. At that point, I researched and then I was walking behind my parents house one day and I was walking over what looked like a field of gold chanterelles. I had been walking over it my entire life without realizing it. I remember being a kid and walking in that stretch of woods and kicking mushrooms over. Now it’s this area I’ve been going to for 15 years, and every year it’s just loaded with chanterelles. Every year through research I find new species, and now I have it so I can identify probably 20-25 species. I’ve made vinegars from wild mushrooms, everything from preserving mushrooms to having them fresh all year long.

FK: Do you do this as a hobby for yourself and your family or do you teach other people too?

ML: My thing is I like sharing them. Whenever I have an abundance of mushrooms through the season, I share them with people who are interested. I try to put it out there as much as possible. It’s not monetary, it’s all about sharing with people and getting people exciting about it.

FK: Was covid good for mushrooms?

ML: Yeah, the last two years have been wonderful. It’s great being out in the woods, but having that when you can’t go anywhere else has been wonderful, but even the seasons have been really great.